08/19/2021 - Nothing Says Back to School Like "No Mask" Mandates

DAN: Hi, there. This is Dan, I'm the producer of Mark and Carrie. We wanted to tell you about another show we think you might like, it's called Trending Globally. The show explores some of the most pressing policy challenges in the world today and looks at some of the most innovative solutions to them.

Our last episode was about how to make difficult decisions, with economist Emily Oster. Our next episode, features a conversation with Brian Atwood, he's the former head of USAID. And we talk about why it's so hard to provide effective long term aid to fragile states like Haiti, Ethiopia, and Salvador. You can find that episode next week and all our other episodes by subscribing to Trending Globally, wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, thanks. Here's Mark and Carrie.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well, hello there. Welcome, to our late summer edition of Mark and Carrie.

MARK BLYTH: I'm still stuck in the basement as you can see.

CARRIE NORDLUND: You're looking paler and paler by the way.

MARK BLYTH: Yes, I am becoming basically a translucent sheet of a middle man flesh, as I slowly disintegrate in the basement.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Do they put a little bit of food, underneath the door every so often.

MARK BLYTH: No, I'm just starving myself, as generations of models have done before me.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yes.

MARK BLYTH: So what's been going on?

CARRIE NORDLUND: Wow, it's a real downer of the last few weeks. It's hard to find very many light spots here. I think what I have been noticing, and I'm sure you have too in the news is, of course, the images and newsreel coming out of Afghanistan and just the total desperation that you're seeing of people clinging to the Air Force planes, people protesting in the streets of the fall of Afghanistan.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, no, absolutely. So I'm going to ask you put your political science hat on this and your Beltway junket experience, et cetera and tell us why this matters for Biden, electorally?

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah.

MARK BLYTH: So here's the thing, I see the entire foreign policy establishment in flames because what Biden has basically done, is said. Well everything we've been doing for the past 20 years, it's bullshit and we're not going to do it anymore, right. And he was egged on in many ways I think by Trump because Trump was the one who originally wanted to withdraw and was talked out of it, right?

So there is this foreign policy establishment view of credibility, and commitment, and so on. And, Biden has just gone off script. No, there is a huge amount of stuff in the press about how he's going to pay a price for this. I'm just not sure that he is, I mean I think that Trump showed that you can basically poop all over your allies and never pay a price, in fact you actually get bonus points for it. And I've got to find it hard pressed to translate, even if people keep saying the word Saigon over and over again.

I mean, Saigon was 50 years ago, right. Most voters do not have an actual memory of the helicopters, and the Saigon, and so on, and, so on and so forth, right? So is he really going to pay a price for this, what do you think?

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well I mean, I agree with you on the American electoral landscape is that I think that Americans are really bad when it comes to foreign policy in terms of evaluating. And then, voting against or for a particular candidate when it comes to that. In fact, I think almost all political science research shows that foreign policy is almost always domestic policy, and the economy, and wallet issues that move people.

So I saw, I think there's in terms of the electoral price very little that he'll pay in the moment, of course, is the cheddaring class really, tear him apart and the images that we're getting. But how long lasting that is I mean, in comparison to COVID. This has now been going on for almost a year and a half and we're Americans are so tired of it. Let alone a place where I don't very many of us could even point to it on a map where Afghanistan is. Unfortunately, I think it is a blip on the radar when it comes to just the things that we care most about in our lives.

I wanted to get back to your point that you were just making though about the foreign policy establishment. And, there's like US military occupied military complex that has been built up and just the articles that you read that essentially Halliburton was keeping. Halliburton the US was keeping Afghanistan working and just with all of their contracts so it's an interesting.

Of course, there's this humanitarian disaster that is unfolding and happening. But I think that if the Biden administration this comes from just reports had said, we're going to pull out in two years, or 10 months, or whatever. It would have been more lives lost, more engagement with the Taliban. And so to do it in a way that he's doing now is to your point just tearing up the script and saying we need to get out now and cut our losses.

MARK BLYTH: So this raises a bigger question I mean, quite rightly most people are focused on as you see the unfolding humanitarian tragedy of essentially saying to people, particularly. If you will the educated classes in Kabul and the other cities or we'll protect. You can have a Western lifestyle, you can have all the perks of modernity women in the labor force equal rights, Absolutely.

And then you just hang these people out to dry, Right? That is what was going on but let's think about the geostrategic side of this. I mean, is this the end of this as you put it there, it was someone you had a nice turn of phrase for it. The American occupy invade complex type stuff. I mean, we went through the whole thing of failed states was the literature that paved the way, right?

Then, there was the whole rogue states then there was 9/11. We have to invade the rogue failed states and then we get into democracy promotion, and State Building, and so on. And from the point of view of other places in the world you can call this what you want, but it's just yet another large imperial power basically pushing its way around in the periphery in order to keep people in line.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah.

MARK BLYTH: No, cause Biden tore up that script because of a horse that's actually, really significant.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah, I agree with that, you also wonder if in this moment. And I don't want to go too far about this track because it's, just full of question marks for me, but is this a sign of overall power and slight decline.

And you see that it really only cares about quote, unquote democracies and citizens of democracies. And anybody else, and a failed state it's just we won't support anymore because there's too many, there's too many other things that are taking up resources and time. That I again, I hesitate on that because it feels so dark to me, and set, and said.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah. No, I agree and also someone said to me on Twitter the other day how come you're not saying anything about Afghanistan I said because anything I would have to say, is reductive second hand ill informed and probably nonsense. So I don't have much to say, either because it is an unfolding humanitarian tragedy but it does require us to think. This is what America is doing on this that's the unprecedented side basically calling it quits.

No Americans called it quits before they called it quits and lots of different places. But there seems to be a kind of almost the Brits had this it was called the East of Suez moment after the Suez Canal crisis 56. Were they basically said, Yeah, we're not going to pretend that we've got global aspirations we are not going to pretend anything. And it's kind of weird because of course, the other side of this is the whole signaling to China a strategic competitor, and we're going to build up the Pacific and all that. Do you need to basically pull down Afghanistan in order to do that it's definitely sending mixed signals around the world.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah, I was curious about the China question as well and what role China then plays in this state.

MARK BLYTH: Well, if you really want to be Machiavellian about this right, what you're basically doing is by destabilizing Afghanistan. You're getting payback to the Pakistanis who have been arming the Taliban forever because no they become their problem. And you've got no basically the Taliban who have proven themselves to be a highly effective infiltrating guerrilla army. Comes straight on China's Western border and they're most sensitive area so--

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah

MARK BLYTH: There's a certain way of looking at this whereby, it's like, OK, it's your problem though.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well I'm going to be interesting, of course I'm with you I don't want to see too much either because it would be ill informed. But I mean, to think that of course the former Soviet Union get their asses kicked there the US. And now, would it be China's, or do to try to do, try to do something different and have a different outcome.

MARK BLYTH: Well the one thing China will not be silly enough to try and invade and transform the country. But that doesn't mean that basically you can't start to see more armed insurrections in the Western provinces with arms and people and training, et cetera. Flowing over the border and the way that it wasn't happening before. So one to watch something else to watch is the change in-- the segue-- to the change in America's demographics. We have become more racially diverse but at the same time it's like gerrymandering time to make sure that white people hang on to power just a little bit longer, so what's going on with the war.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Over we have this is something we've talked a lot about just in terms of gerrymandering, but Yeah I mean, the numbers are starting to come out and there's these cool maps showing where things demographics have changed and how the country itself has changed as well.

MARK BLYTH: So one of the main changes, tell me what the main changes are.

CARRIE NORDLUND: So increase in Asians, increase of Hispanics, and Asians in counties, and states everywhere, not just in New York, not just along the coast. And I think that by just looking at that we would think that Electorally, this would benefit the Democrats. But because of course our old friend gerrymandering that says, this is allowed for more gerrymandered districts to essentially PAC districts full of people, of color. And then Pac districts full of white people to maintain that to maintain the balance of power that we currently have. And I think it favors Republicans like four or five seats something like that overall.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, I'm tempted not to read too much into that because to go back to other conversations we've had. It turns out that people of color can be conservatives too. Default, this default assumption that like Oh, not white person so you must vote Democrat. I mean, we know that wrong the election last time clearly showed that so there is that effect. So you wonder how much of this is trying to protect for a threat that actually isn't there, in the sense that just because you are not white person doesn't mean you're not going to vote Republican so there's that aspect to it. The other thing that I think is fascinating then becomes people like Hawley and others inside the Republican Party who are definitely, if you will the next generation of leadership. Their strategy seems to be this thing called the white working class, right.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah.

MARK BLYTH: They have basically, they are for antitrust, or for breaking up big companies. They want higher wages, they're basically, pivoting almost completely away from the traditional low tax small state give everything to corporations republicanism. And they want to double down on a white working class. But if you're doing that, then your ability to reach out to social conservatives and political conservatives who happen to be not white gets extremely circumcised. So they'll find themselves in a position whereby maybe gerrymandering is necessary because their own strategy in a sense is so self limiting.

CARRIE NORDLUND: But I think, even if they took that same message and just did a couple maybe a couple of shifts just in wording. They might actually capture some of those who don't, some of those voters that don't want big government. Big government scares them and reminds them of a government that censors them. So I mean, I think there's actually just a couple views more small things that one could do for Josh Harlan, Tom Cotton that actually might help them. But I think you're right they're so caught up in Trump fever that they're just not going to do that.

But here's I just added one last thought about Trump for a second, is that George P. Bush the grandson of George HW who President Trump had made fun of both his father and his mother went to kiss the ring of Trump. And Trump ended up endorsing his opponent so just a word to those Republicans thinking that if they kiss the ring that they're safe somehow and Trump land like you got to watch your back. So maybe a little bit of moderation might help you overall and a little bit in terms of the voters and thinking you haven't made once you've gotten the stamp of approval from Trump.

MARK BLYTH: Well, the whole continuing long shadow of Trump is interesting what keeps this alive. I mean, what made him powerful was basically social media. So the fact that he's been booted off social media means that he gets attention to the extent that people feel that they need to pay fealty to him and then, that gets reported on. And I'm just wondering, do we ever get to a post Trump point where you forget that is there, not of your Republican but like in general like does he ever drop out of the news cycle. Because what makes him the kingmaker is the fact that the media keeps saying he's the kingmaker, there's a certain self reflective quality in this one.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well and people think of course that if he endorses all these people and they lose then we want to see you anymore but I think you're right. I mean, I think this is a mainstream media like what else do they have to write about except there's really, there's a gigantic personality. OK, so I don't know if you've been experiencing higher temperatures or if you experience a very hot summer.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, I've noticed a few things absolutely. The far to where I live in Providence, Rhode Island, July was incredibly moist, there was a lot of precipitation, a lot of rain. It was a crap month, but it was the hottest month ever that's ever been recorded, so of course this is the Segway into last week's IPCC report the code red for Humanity. So just a couple of highlights not from the report from actually around the world. Italy had its hottest day ever, right about 1 and 1/2 standard deviations and the town called for others to call Florida, I think it was called Florida and Sicily and the place is famous for its little vineyard snails and all the vineyard snails boiled in their shells because it was so hot.

In Kuwait, there's a giant graveyard of tires, which is on fire even worse, Siberia has already burned forget the wildfires in the West. Siberia has burned an area the size of Greece and that's burning through the permafrost and pushing up methane, which is 80 times worse for warming right. So as usual, ratcheting up the temperature on the frog that we are boiling in the pot of water and we don't care. My favorite WTF Moment was two days after the report was released the Biden team and Blinken in particular basically asked OPEC to pump more gas because gas prices are too high for American consumers. So I'm looking at the supposed infrastructure bill that's going to come through in 3 and 1/2 trillion, which is actually $350 billion over 10 years, it's not as big as it sounds.

But a large part of this is towards decarbonization of the electricity grid and all this sort of stuff. And it's just like why should I believe you I mean, really at the end of the day if the minute the gas prices go $0.20 above the comfort zone basically you're asking OPEC to pump more gas. We have no carbon budget left, right, it is do stuff now or gets really bad like above 2% already big then we're heading towards 3%. And Yeah, we're the people who care about the climate we are going to definitely do something about this OPEC pump more gas. I mean, it was just one of those moments where I was like well that's it we're doomed.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well, and you just think I mean, I was thinking about this, of course because it is so hot and I it's not just it's extreme weather too. But just thinking that environmentalists used to be like save the spotted owl and now and that somehow was different and separate from the economy-- economics, that's the word I'm looking for, of everything. And democracy and all, but seemingly is all interrelated and so maybe we need to be talking about these things altogether.

And, I guess I was just thinking about that as you talk about OPEC that somehow, maybe you shouldn't OPEC be talking about this. And that Saudi Arabia is going to run out of gas in the next 70 years and then what are they going to do. I mean, isn't that a major civilization in the Middle East but we just have no forward thinking when it comes to this.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah. I mean, the Saudis are an interesting on the one hand, they could be the Saudi Arabia of sunshine right, just dumping of solar panels then you become an electricity exporter. I mean, there's no reason why not at the end of the day, though I mean, there will be other moves made this point recently. There will always be carbon being burned for certain things like if you want to build a windmill you need to have the Steal and the Steal requires a certain type of coking coal so far. At least, or at least burning gas. Until you get synthetic aviation fuels, which are 50 years off, you're still going to be burning that when you fly around and stuff like that.

So there is going to be residual carbon usage and then the advantage goes to the lowest crop, lowest cost, high quality producer. And that basically is the Saudis in the Middle East that forget shale and all that stuff. So in a sense they are hedged like they're going to still have it and they can also transact but they like everyone else was just like let's put our fingers in areas and talk about getting back to normal and totally ignore the fact that the House is on fire. So more of the same basically that's I guess.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well speaking of houses on fire, the House of Cuomo-- [INAUDIBLE] segue.

MARK BLYTH: Nice segue. I like that. The House of Cuomo. That sounds like a really bad pizza shop. how's--

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yes, it doesn't give you any because you like tepid pizza, so he resigned the governor or he is resigning I don't--

MARK BLYTH: I think Yeah, he's in the process of resigning but somebody else is now in charge right.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah, I mean what a scumbag. I mean you just think what I mean, by that was I mean, take away what a scumbag then my takeaway was what really is, like wow when you have that many enemies. What's the saying like you step my shoulders on your way out and then people like push you down on the way down, or whatever it is. But I just like people in Albany, New York were just so gleeful to watch the fall of it.

MARK BLYTH: Right.

CARRIE NORDLUND: And just no friends whatsoever.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, one of the ones that many people have pointed out of course, as he passed this piece of legislation, which allows to turn back the clock on historic sex crimes on stuff that's passed the Statue of limitations right. With the result that someone who is now 60 years old is suing Bob Dylan I don't know if you saw this for an alleged assault when she was 12 years old right. So it's interesting that this guy has this foresight to basically weaponize the ability of people to go after historic sex crimes. Well, he himself is basically committing them every day. It's that level of disconnect, which I just find out a little more well. There's also something about I don't know whether it's a Claus thing, or a generational thing or a bit of both.

But men that I know of my age right the idea that I would put my hand anywhere near a co-worker right. I mean, like we would all be like, what did you do that was insane right, you wouldn't you just wouldn't be here you wouldn't think that were right. And you either Stole this bunch of guys who are perhaps 5 to 10 years older than me who are still in that mindset. And his resignation speech, or whatever when he basically said, I recognize the standards of change. I just didn't recognize how much it's like this is the worst answer ever what you did was deeply creepy stuff. And you have no way of processing how creepy that is, that' also what stands out for me from that.

CARRIE NORDLUND: And what's your point about a colleague and co-worker alike just when does that ever I mean, I even hesitate to lie Pat someone on the arm as a colleague. To let alone give the other people's behavior that he has and you're right, you're so right in that as he is mounting his own defense verbally. He is doing all the things that one is not supposed to do in terms of the victim shaming and all I mean, everything it was a classic case of don't ever speak.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, exactly it's like you clearly don't get it, do you just still don't see why this is actually a problem. It's almost like but surely mind handling people, is like a perk of the job right. That's what I do of a politician I guess babies and I squeeze, but no, you don't do that we haven't been doing that for 25 years. And now, if you do you get called out on it so like what are you doing. Yeah, it was interesting to see him just like Stonewall until basically the wall fell down.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah. And, I did wonder whether he was going to resign or and we're going to have to impeach him. But I can see he had one little shred of dignity left. I want to do a quick wrap up of the Olympics. I don't know if you watch.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, Absolutely I know that you watched I was looking pass me by.

CARRIE NORDLUND: I enjoyed the closing ceremony and then, and here's where I want to go is they handed up the head off the flags to the other to the next country and they headed off to Paris and of course they had to score gorgeous like flyover of the Eiffel Tower. But well I was thinking most about is that next year is that the Winter Olympics are in Beijing. And the Olympics are about peace and harmony and I were friends and we compete in friendly competition. And I just wondered what the IOC was going to do we were standing in Beijing and talking about World peace, and humanity, and et cetera. In this country that of course has none of that happening and how it is that they are going to be able to keep a straight face.

And just thinking about the soft power that China has used the Olympics for, as a vehicle to show the world that it is a compassionate country. So I was thinking a lot about that as far as the closing ceremony happened and wonder how they will handle this all with China. And I'm sure none I'm the workers will not be mentioned. I'm sure that the surveillance state will not be mentioned and all of these different things that of course, China is moving forward with.

MARK BLYTH: Well I mean, the obvious competitor is FIFA right so in Twenty-Twenty-Two we break with old tradition, we don't have them in the summer, we have them in November after 8 o'clock at night in Qatar, right. And that isn't a case of just basically, OK why did you do that all because of Qatar's long history of soccer playing. Because it's obviously, the best place to run a tournament where people are running around, expending a lot of energy, you want a place that's boiling all the time right that's a good one.

So clearly these organizations FIFA is, shall we say had its reputation dragged through the cleaners several times recently a change of leadership the expulsion of Sepp Blatter, the guy who used to run it, et cetera. And all of the Olympics in that same bind right, I mean ultimately. They've got to find a place to host us, this is the reason that this is what they do. They plan has very few places are willing or can afford to hold Olympic events, on China's one of them, so and they have great facilities, and it all work brilliantly. So what are you going to do, Yeah, of course you're going to go along with it absolutely.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Which is such an interesting point of national pride and nationalism. And all these things that we're supposed to not be in Twenty-Twenty-One like nationalism is bad right and we're not. But that countries have used to use the Olympics, use big sporting events like the World Cup as a way to raised, to raise as a way to raise their own Morales. And there's no real point of pride to so I just think that's like all of these different angles on the Olympics, or World Cup, or what have you is really interesting in terms of the global political positioning of it all.

MARK BLYTH: Exactly. Well, as we come to the end of our chat for this one, it is back to school time. You will be back at work, I will be back at work. I guess, we actually have to talk about masks.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah, I guess we do and nothing says back to school like no mask mandates.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, I think that's right but it's funny I mean, if you look at this from the point of view of other countries around the world are also dealing with COVID. I mean, there is this weird thing that's going on just now what I imagine people are just scratching their heads essentially, looking at the United States and going. All right, the Afghanistan thing any European left has basically been screaming for 20 years, this is bad, it's just imperialism and it's going to end badly and it shouldn't be the well in a sense wish fulfillment.

But now you can basically say, but the leaving all these people behind and that's terrible and it's like, Yeah, well this is how this works. So this is obviously, a horrible messy business what does it mean for transatlantic relations, what does it mean for NATO to scratch our heads and all that. But then the really, amusing and amusing stuff is to basically watch the cultural politics of masks.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah,

MARK BLYTH: Right, every country has a little bit of this obsoleted of people in Germany who do this, people in Britain who do this, right. But at the same time I mean, Britons I think it's 81% of people have had two shots in the UK and basically, if you watch the Premier League opening matches last week. 3,000 people in a stadium nobody wearing masks right, delta going down right, so maybe that is actually overblown, or whatever.

But it's the ability that we've had to weaponize anything that we can turn to anything in a partisan climate. And we do know that delta is more serious for kids, it's not like a pandemic in its own right, we're not talking about thousands of kids being in hospital, but it is more serious as more dangerous. And, just using why politicians would say no, absolutely not, I'm going to put your kids at risk right, this is what I'm doing and it's just like, really? I mean, how do you get away with that?

CARRIE NORDLUND: I know when it's over Something so silly. I mean, silly meaning, it's just it's a mask, I mean we're not.

MARK BLYTH: It's a mask.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yes, we're not asking for it.

MARK BLYTH: Nobody's doing like fool bio suits, mean it's just a mask.

CARRIE NORDLUND: And even, if it was some rule, or some policy regulating young women's bodies you can be sure that they would say--

MARK BLYTH: Oh, Yeah. The mask and everything --

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah, exactly.

MARK BLYTH: Muscle all over the place.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yes.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, it's a funny one. I mean, how do you think about that as a keen observer of American politics. I mean, is it just is this just pure partnership, basically we will weaponize anything to keep our base riled up, or is there a further, is there something deeper here in terms of the way that America just regard anything to do with them as an imposition on a infringement on their freedom, or someone. It's very hard for me as somebody who grew up in Europe to get my head around us, I mean, it's just it's a public health issue right. I can infect somebody else COVID my freedom and the point my impact somebody else's freedom by making them sick right, so I just don't get the whole freedom thing, how do you make sense of it

CARRIE NORDLUND: I think that it is just the world there is a certain strain that's just the rail, the rail of the base and keep them motivated. But I do think that there is this libertarian streak of keep your laws off my body, except when it comes to some stuff and mostly about women's bodies that is just very that is very American in that way. And that there we all are Americans and I was just one myself I don't like this like government telling me that I have to do something, whether that is around my body.

So whether that is put on a mask, take a vaccination, whatever that is It is this weird strand of things because you would think that it was exactly what you just said, if I'm harming somebody else. But if I put them in peril that would be somehow motivate me to be a good citizen, but in some ways it's just we turned our back so much, I mean, this is of course like Bowling Alone and like social capital all that stuff. We just don't care about each other in that way anymore, people that we don't know.

MARK BLYTH: And my Twitter feed, I did see something, I got retweeted about like 3,000 times and it was a comment from someone who just said, nobody should be puzzling about the fight over masks. I just remember that, nobody should be puzzling about the fight over masks. Because we spent 40 years quite deliberately, dismantling and attacking any sense of trust that we have in government underneath each other. So this is the consequence, this is where you get when you basically hyperindividualized society and demonize the state, of course you're not going to trust it. Then it makes it fertile ground for like there's a microchip in your arm and whatever things you want to believe this week.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well, on something later, I just feel this is yet another coda to what we are talking about at the last podcast. And that is when Jeff Bezos went into space, a lot of people were also remarking on his face, in that he had been using maybe Juvéderm, or Botox, and fillers that he looks very different than he used to use. I wasn't sure if you had scheduled your Botox appointment or not, but it seems to be the real thing to do for men of certain age.

MARK BLYTH: I think I'm well past Botox on the floor.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah.

MARK BLYTH: I don't get this basement, I'm literally going to just disintegrate to me, this is not a healthy parlor. But Yeah, I mean, I guess I mean, I don't know I mean, ultimately the great leveler on everything is aging right. I mean, we're all, we all get old and eventually we all die. Despite the fact he's got $200 million and basically built himself Charlie's great glass elevator, atop a rocket, so he could nearly get into space. I suppose that he feels he needs to look younger, like a man or the certain age do I suppose. Yeah, it's I guess maybe $200 billion doesn't make you happy after all.

CARRIE NORDLUND: I know, right. Like I mean, his therapist must really be puzzling over what can make you happy like going to space, does it get a new face, does it, maybe some more internal work Jeff.

MARK BLYTH: I think so, I think so, maybe he just give it all away.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Imagine that. Yes.

MARK BLYTH: No, absolutely not.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Well, it was nice to see you.

MARK BLYTH: Yes, exactly. We will be back at school shortly. So we should have our first chat sometime in September.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yes.

MARK BLYTH: We'll do our back to school special, you have noticed that every episode we have is actually a special.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Yeah. End of summer special.

MARK BLYTH: Yeah, so we had the beginning of summer special, there'll be a midsummer special with the end of summer special, and we'll have the back to school special. I guess then we'll have to wait a while have the Halloween Special.

CARRIE NORDLUND: That's right, Yeah. It's a--

MARK BLYTH: Thanksgiving special, after Christmas special, everything is special.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Because we're special.

MARK BLYTH: It's nice to be special.

CARRIE NORDLUND: Thanks for listening at everybody, Bye.

MARK BLYTH: Bye.